I'm having a weird time at the minute. There are lots and lots of struggles in the body of the church. Things are uncomfortable, the ‘least’ are around us and they're not as attractive or as grateful as we'd like. Too much time is given to the poor and the marginalised and not enough on the givers and upholders of the church body.
Outside the community though I chat to people about the things we are engaged in, you know, helping asylum seekers, working with the homeless, drug addicts etc and people think it's great. Like they lap it up. Then they say things like, 'your church sounds great, I never new Christians were into stuff like that.'
To be honest its freaking me out a bit.
I sat in a training day which was all about harm reduction. Basically how you get people to manage drug and alcohol problems without expecting them to stop completely all at once. Anyway, I was sat with people from various agencies and what became apparent right from the off was that I was in a whole different arena. How do you talk about ‘appropriate role boundaries’ when you don’t have a working relationship but a community relationship, when you truly do seek to be a friend? When I began to talk about looking after people who are themselves at risk along side the drug addict who may steal and lie etc and that in a church community we are wanting to encourage, love and protect the safety of both there was real appreciation of it. I found myself bizarrely giving a Christian account of love and justice to a group of non religious 3rd sector workers and they were loving it!
The following day I was sat in a nail bar having my monthly manicure (?) when I’m asked what I do. I tell them. I am then asked more and more questions and am told more and more childhood stories about faith experience until eventually I am having a theological discussion about what it means to belong to a community. I don’t have these conversations within my community!
If this church stuff of loving the poor and standing with those outside is so attractive, why are those inside the community leaving and complaining? Why do people I worship with talk about church not being safe or ‘what it should be’ while those outside seem to get excited? Why is this stuff not working the right way around?
For the moment then I continue in my strange and unsettling out of body experience...
The body is where Christ takes form in word or action ... so not so much out of body as in one less well recognised ... but Christ has so often chosen to come and go incognito
ReplyDeleteI have been thinking quite a lot about this post since you put it up yesterday. Initially my response was very much that well, you were obviously in the right place doing the right stuff and so sod the people who didn't agree with it. (This being my preferred way of doing everything, which may be why I am on extended sabbatical! :-) )
ReplyDeleteBut thinking it over I wonder if there is a more uncomfortable truth somewhere - that churchgoers need a sense of ownership over the activities of the church body, that one has to be seen doing things not TO but WITH them, somehow, and that maybe is part of the disquiet? I think that churchgoers hate to feel used, and if they feel that they are at some level being treated as second-class to the "really needy" ones, then there is almost inevitably a grumble from the pews.
I don't know if I am overthinking this.
Craig, blimey. Incognito? Not that i think you're wrong, i don't, but that has significant implications for how we attempt to be church, and our means of doing ministry.
ReplyDeleteHi Craig,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say a bit, but as Andy says the implications if you run with that are uncomfortable. What then of the gathered body, what does it mean to follow and how? If what you say is so then why on earth do we have a system of ministry like we do?
Kerry,
You are right but (there's always a but) what if when people come to church they're not really looking for changed realities and becoming Christlike what if it's about being good? What if the Gospel is just too demanding, do we tone it down for public acceptance? My take on Church folk generally is that they're a beautiful bunch, doing really good stuff. This Gospel teaching is so radically different to how we are told to live everywhere else though that it becomes hard. Then we get snippy.
Of course the danger is though that folks like me over egg the holy bit and think we're right about everything, that too could be the problem..
Yes, true on all fronts. I think one of the difficulties is that ministers often fall into one of two categories: they're brilliant at the Christ-in-community stuff and take their sense of idntity/mission/vocation primarily from that, or they're brilliant at pastoral outreach which is where they find Christ-in-the-margins.
ReplyDeleteGetting the balance right between serving both is something that almost everyone struggles with I think - and unfortunately a minister who is gifted at the former will not likely be challenged by their community to do more of the latter, whereas a natural worker-on-the-margins will definitely run into struggles with their congregation at some point.
I don't have any answers to this (being so far towards the Christ-on-the-margins end of things that I tend to naturally marginalise myself!!!) I know it will always be a struggle for me to fit neatly into a Christian cmmunity, but I've increasingly come to the view that that struggle and difficulty is not a barrier to my ministry, but part of its very nature. If that makes sense and is not self-justifying (and, indeed, off the point which was about you).
Hi Kez et al
ReplyDeletethe incognito does not necessarily abolish the gathering body, it just means that it comes together to gather the experiences of having been and found Christ in the world and to then scatter ourselves among the world once more challenged, encouraged and inspired. We coudl still have pastors except theri vocation would be less about running churches and programmes and more about spiritual discernment and nurture.
But then again if this is true why am i not doing it???
Hi Kez
ReplyDeleteI have a few thoughts on your ponderings.
In answer to this paragraph:
"If this church stuff of loving the poor and standing with those outside is so attractive, why are those inside the community leaving and complaining? Why do people I worship with talk about church not being safe or ‘what it should be’ while those outside seem to get excited? Why is this stuff not working the right way around?"
Those inside the church who are 'leaving' or 'complaining' are perhaps those who have experienced the 'loving the poor and standing with those outside' rather than just admiring it from afar. It's easy to 'think' something is great and get excited about it - but when you actually do it (as you know yourself) it is a different kettle of fish altogether and all sorts of concerns and spiritual battles come into play. Whilst I think some of the complaining is unjustified, some of it is perhaps concerns for the safety and well being of their family / friends and concern for how best to do a good job for the Lord and those in need.
Those you have met who are 'getting excited' about it ought perhaps to 'do' it and see if they feel the same way. I am sure they would have some of the same concerns as have been raised by the people you worship with.
A lot of people in the church are very excited about the shelter and the on-going work it throws up whilst keeping a level head and wanting to provide a place of worship for anyone who needs it.
Some things that have been done in the past have been 'unsafe' and the complaints have been justified, but what you have done with the leadership team, quite rightly, is address those things and make them as safe as can be. But perhaps without those comments some of the issues might not have been addressed or even realised. You know 2 heads are better than one for spotting things that need doing / changing.
I hope this is helpful, as I too have come across many positive comments from secular places such as people at work, who think what is going on at WBC is great. But the reality is that it is great - but also very challenging. And not many of those people outside are at the front of the queue volunteering to tackle the challenge.
Kathy Smith
(Not sure about the 'select profile' bit - panicking now....arrrgh! Put my name in full in case I hash it up!)
Hi Kez, first let me say I have to totally agree with Kathy in respect to everything she says and couldn't have put it better in any other words.
ReplyDeleteThe statement below i totally disagree with.
I think that churchgoers hate to feel used, and if they feel that they are at some level being treated as second-class to the "really needy" ones, then there is almost inevitably a grumble from the pews.
I don't know if I am overthinking this.
People leaving WBC is nothing to do with been treated as second class. First you have to define the term 'really needy'. All people within the church have many needs, even the ones seen as wealthy and owning their own homes will still have their own needs. I feel church should not fall into levels of categorising people and everyone should be given the respect and pastoral care according to their own circumstances and not comparing.
Thanks both. I think I agree with a lot of what you say. Kathy, I wasn't referring to the night shelter in particular. My conversations with those outside are often around what I think it means to belong to a body of people in deep commitment, what it means to try and follow Jesus and where that means you will give time and resources. The shelter at church is a part of that but 'only' a part.
ReplyDeleteYou are really on the money when you say that once you try this Gospel stuff it feels harder and less exciting than maybe is once imagined. Also that it's easy to be enthusiastic from the outside. It is.
A couple of things I think go along with this though,
Some people are coming along and joining in and doing the work. The rota for the shelter is getting more and more people on it from 'outside' because they're attracted to what we're doing. That’s interesting isn’t it? People who have had no interest or connections with church communities finding some relevance?
There is also a difference between people struggling and voicing that struggle and people miss naming their struggle and being destructive. There is real struggle that needs working through and there’s threat to our pockets, status and maybe middleclass roots. I don’t want to confuse the two so I need to be careful there.
As for need and time and resources Alison. Well, yes I would say we do all have needs but we don’t all start with the same resource structures in place. I come from a position of plenty and abundance. I have good family, education and place. I don’t have the same depth of need as some of the others we are encountering. I also need to note that nothing of what I have is mine or deserved. It is all gift and from God. So then what do I do with those resources, where do I share my abundance? I do need less help than some others. Not because I have no hardships or difficulties but because I am already very rich in family, capacity and friends. That brings with it obligation. I also, at the bottom of it, find it hard to read the gospels and not acknowledge that Jesus spent the majority of his time with the marginalised, poor and sick. A few wealthy ones get in there but on the whole he hangs out with those oppressed. If we are to become Christ like, if that’s what we want, then that needs taking seriously.
We all will have times of need, pain and grief and here I would want to look at being committed in fullness to the people of God in the hope that they will carry me and be carried when we need each other. That’s what I want church community to look like. Not just somewhere we hang out on Sunday but a place of deep friendship, relationship and care for everyone.
I don’t really think that that picture translates to the ministers or leadership divvying up their time in equal slots for everyone (I know that’s not what you were suggesting). I think it means that in our committed relationships we all look out for each other. Building up and also giving the hard word when we need it. That I think goes with what you say about meeting individual people’s needs at the time they arise.
People coming into our community is unsettling and it is also very new. We are only just over a year into this and it will take time for us to adjust and find a good way of moving forward. We need to have some grace with regard to this, an allowance for mistakes to be made whilst moving forward and loving each other. We need to be honest with ourselves if we feel threatened by this change and why that is. Where is that threat legitimate and where do we need to be challenged?
The goal of all this is always discipleship.
You’re right Kathy, it is so easy to get excited from the outside. I find this stuff hard and I feel beaten up a lot of the time. I also feel, as I sit here and type this at three in the morning, whilst watching over nine sleeping outcaste men, how terribly, heart wrenchingly , gut yearningly thrilled I am that I belong to Jesus Christ as seen through the community of WBC.
Hi Kez, thank you for your comments and i couldn't agree more with what you said. It is difficult at this time to put into words the feelings and emotions experienced over the last months. I know my deep faith would never allow me to just to come to church and hang out on a sunday , that is not what it is all about. But over the last month i feel something is not quite right and feel the loss of deep friendship and support within the church family . TGI have been a special part of WBC to us and will continue to do so. See you at the meeting and thank you for your support whilst my family and i have been ill. xx Allison
ReplyDelete